Registered: Mar 2001
Location: dungeons of the uber zone
Posts: 514
thats a hard subject
it is just a game, but it is *somewhat* based on reality and *mostly* based on fantasy...... hence our conflict.......
i suppose we have to treat it as both, but well.... i still say it is a fantasy game with some laws of physics implied....
That was a very good question, and cuts right through to the heart of this entire subject.
Tribes (as a whole) has made such in-roads in computer gaming by offering the first person view...that it came closest to mimicing the much-wanted "Virtual Reality" experience.
JI and RPG took that experience, I believe, a step farther, by creating a whole "Virtual Reality" world.
And as it's creator, could deem whatever he wanted to be the boundaries of that new world.
Therefore, within THIS (RPG) world, zombies and skeletons and green goblins roam, and magic can kill them. That is the boundary defined.
So given those boundaries, everything within must be relative. That keeps the sense of "virtual reality" consistent. So if an imaginary sloth takes a swipe at you and you get damaged, and can almost die (or do indeed die), then it doesn't make sense that you can't hurt yourself by falling, or as someone pointed out, by drowning.
It just needs to be in balance. The damage points from falling need to be in balance with the other kinds of damage. Just as the sense of reality and fantasy must be in balance and the experience of fun/release should be in balance with the amount of challange/frustration.
It's late, my brain hurts, I've burbbled too much.
Bottom line: what's the system for determining how many hit points occur from a bot, and what is that applied (relatively) to the hit points from falling?
My guess is JI already did that with this new update.
I can't say I was happy with the new damage points, but if it's in balance with the rest of the game, without distrupting the fun/frustration balance, then I can live with it.
JI, already tested your level 1 damage thing. I didnt know about the fall damage increase......jumped into gnoll pit (which is maybe 15 feet) and took a hit of 35hp and died.
I agree with you completely that falling should be more realistic, but that kind of damage on a level 1 (especially newbies) is going to make the game unfun for them and they will leave. I mean, so newbies i would happy to see leave, but the more population lost, the less popular the mod becomes.
Dropping the damage just a tad should be fair enough. i dun mind getting hurt and dying.
Sicne we are talking feedback, in the mines, also in the gnoll pit, i dont know if its a glitch or not, but somewhere in the bottom of the pit on the edge, you get stuck and cant move at all. maybe if you check worldcraft with he place lit up, you might see what i mean.
Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 615
Who cares about warning the newbies...seriously. They'll take a bad fall, die, and learn from that. You said it yourself, it's just a game anyway, why would it matter if they fall and die because they were careless?
Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 615
Oops didn't realize there was a second page... the post above was addressing issues in the first page.
Ok here are my wise thoughts on the matter:
What the heck were you doing in the gnoll pit at level 1??
I have a request to make... When you post an argument, please don't exaggerate circumstances. This makes it difficult to see the truth behind your points. Example: "player to fall and die every few seconds"
This does not happen. You have to suck big-time ass to fall and die every couple minutes even. The only accidental deaths that occur are those when venturing on hills and alongside cliffs and forgetting to slow down before reaching the edge. I think it was stupid that you had NO FEAR WHATSOEVER of walking alongside a cliff in RPG. Even when you fell, you just had to hold the back button and voila you magically grip to the cliff and can even climb it back. In my honest opinion, I would have MUCH MORE FUN risking my neck walking along the cliff and taking an accidental dive to my death. One thing is for sure, I would travel by boat. Adventuring would be limited to higher levels who can take occasional fall damage. Besides, newbies' adventures typically occur in the mines. And who ever said the mines were safe, with or without the presence of enemies?
I think that this whole concept is completely balanced within the boundaries of this game.
Your arguments are always based on extraordinary circumstances. Example: level 1 jumping off Yolanda... LEVEL 1's AREN'T SUPPOSED TO VENTURE THERE!
Get my point?
I'm not going to be touching the fall damage until I personally get frustrated from falling and dieing.
Registered: Mar 2001
Location: JI & PoG's RPG
Posts: 2479
Well, here are some thoughts.
Example:
Bob the newbie hits level 4, and decides to spend sp for teleport. He does #cast teleport dungeon and finds himself on top of Yolanda. He decides to hop down, and goes splat. He then does #cast teleport dungeon to get his back, and finds himself on top of Yolanda again.
Case 1: He realizes that if he jumps again, he's going to die again, so does #cast teleport dungeon again and finally finds himself on the ground. He retrieves his pack and shoots some spells at orcs.
Case 2: He jumps down again, goes splat again, spams "THIS GMAE SUX" a few times, and drops, never to return.
Case 1 is a newbie learning. This is good.
Case 2 is a good example of natural selection.
Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 615
Good point Toaster.
A patient and deserving player (deserving as in, deserves to play this game) is a player who would inch off the side of yolanda and try to land on the big ramp to minimize damage.
It's a big structure, so jumping from the top of it obviously causes considerable damage. And if it really becomes necessary, I'll add a brick that pops out half way along the wall to jump down to.
Not trying to exaggerate anything. Mainly when you are a low level, the mines are the best spot to go. You gain EXP, and you have the crystals to mine to make cash. The only crystal you can hit now, because of the new setup, is the small rock crystal until you are at least level 25. (because you cant jump out of gnoll pit). Even with gliders i dont know, i havent tried. Most newbies take advice from players who have played. as most of us would do, at level 10 we would already be in yolanda. So from level 1, to level 25, you can barely make any cash (since gnoll pit is like a deathtrap).
This is just going to raise up the percentage of beggers on the server. i'll admit, i actually had to beg for a few things to just move along in the game. It's pathetic and i hate doing it. It's good i have understanding friends
*shrugs* But, it's your mod JI. what you see fit is what goes. these are just opinions.
ALSO! i dont know if you noticed in my last post, when you are in the gnoll pit, when you go to climb the wall, if you dont jump, i dont know if its a glitch or crack in the floor, but you get so stuck you can not move at all. i had gotten stuck in the gnoll pit (i was mining) and my DSL had died. when i logged back on the next day, i tried walking out of the pit as usual and couldnt. when i landed, i got stuck where i couldnt move at all. i logged off, a few hours later i logged on. thank god deus was there and i was assisted by a shove and two rocks to make somewhat of a ramp to get out. see if you can check out what im trying to say.
Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 615
I forgot to mention... it's impossible for me to modify the gnoll pit in order to fix the aforementionned problems because the gnolls aren't letting me. I tried to get them to vacate but they won't budge. They say it's been their home for a long time and they won't move for nobody. Bob, the head Gnoll I was trying to convince, said that his grandfather lived there and pretty much built the damn pit. He said he felt it was his duty as a Gnoll to conserve the heritage of this old dirty gnoll pit.
They move into the hotel in K Town and you can't get them out! You can call them Trolls.
j/k
Neat to see your sense of humor pop out there, JI!
So tell me, have you named some of the other monsters after folks on this forum then run around and bash them? AAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhh die you stoopid newbie-beta-testing-annoying-person you!
Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 615
Well..back when the armor skins looked the same on both bots and players, I use to spawn 10 JeremyIrons bots around me and I would pretend to walk like a bot. I'd run into walls and stick to them, then turn around while strafing and hit another wall. People would eventually take me for a bot then I'd hit em for 3000 damage =)