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I think you should password the servers to prevent the "gate" loophole... if the server goes down then tough luck, it shouldn't be down for THAT long.

It adds more signifigance to the concept of continents if you can't have a "quick fix" like that. I'll respond later on a btter reason than that, but I need to get going...

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i dunno if anyone pitched the idea yet but...

why not have some lvl restrictions on a couple maps or something...

so a map could have alot of hard dungeons and alot of good merchants

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map making

When I get my friend Cricket to start mappin for T2, (he just needs a copy) we are going to make maps for T2 RPG. Well, start them, get the terrain and placement down, then add zones and make adjustments after its release, and send them to Jl for final touches to his hearts desire.

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*sigh*

Yeah, we talked about that a little and I'll quote DeathMerchant, just for you:

Some continents would be harder than others, but all should be at least accessible by low lev players if they can transport enough cash to the gate. Let 'em die..

So basically, we were thinking that harder continents will require a fee to go to them (like paying to ride the boat to the continent)

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and the uber zone requires you to be remort right?

uber zone is a huge factor that makes people remort

so a new map would be like the uber zone

its just another one of those things that makes you keep playing the mod and to keep leveling up

AND imagine a map where you DONT have to play with low levels and dumb newbies, it would be much better and a hella more fun for the people who hate newbies and low levels. wont have people begging you as much

10 sp and some new equipment just doesnt cut it anymore

people like things that motivate and reward them, and motivation keeps people playing

plus people would keep leveling up and playing more just to see whats it like...show them a few kick ass screen shots of the map

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maps...

they would also keep lvling up to get to the next map.

newbie starts on easy continent
remort 1 next...
remort 2 next...
remort 3 next...

It would be like as your "Hero" becomes greater and more powerful he can travell to far off lands to defeat evil and help villagers in distress. kind aliek diablo 2 with the acts.

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Are we sure remorting is going to be in T2rpg? i recall seeing in the design docs thread that it might not be included, that or it would be so hard to get to, few would ever make it. Dunno fer sure.

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First off:
You shouldn't have to FORCE someone to remort, if they don't want to thats there choice.

Secondly:
True "newbies" wont have the cash to get to new continents, or be strong enough to make it to a portal or entrance in a dungeon.

Third:
Theres nothing wrong with newbies, you were also one once aswell! It wouldn't hurt to help a few out, just think "What if that was me?"...

There shouldn't be a level "cap" for continents, its either "C@n j00 h@X05 17?" or "Can you even get there?".

Think of it in terms of EQ:
You CAN go to Naggy's Lair (a mean-ass dragon) at lvl 1... but if you'll survive is a different matter.

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Ah, but notice he said "dumb" newbies. Not all newbies are dumb, just unskilled. Big dif. You can have dumb oldbies (absolutely NO offense to anyone there.)

Having places segregated in the map where only skilled players can go is not unlike what is currently out there, it gives you something to strive for and make you stick with the game.

Included in these continents, I don't know if it got mentioned, but since there is ability to mess with weather/gravity, I'd still like to see the Lost Water City under water and a maybe the Lost Shanga-La in snow/ice/mountains. Or one of my earlier ideas for a city in the sky....that would be a server that had to be reached by some sort of air travel (and yes, that is possible, given peeps ideas for teles, flying carpets, etc.)

Yanno, I'm kinda reminded of that one STTNG (Trek) episode where they encountered a planet that was basically a portal to all sorts of different worlds. You got into the "control room" and could see all the portals and then you chose which one you wanted, jumped through and there you were.

Kinda like a tele trainstation or airport.

-ok shutting up

Last edited by GoldenFlight on 05-08-2001 at 04:32 AM

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I don't think giving people a goal just to get into an area is worth it.

If they enjoy the game and find it engaging, they'll stay. They wont stay and level just because they want to get into a new area.

If the game has a few trade skills for the merchants, a good monster and land selection for the adventurers, and cool engaging quests for the questers you have most of your bases covered right there.
---------------
Ok, think of continents this way:
This is a "regular" world, minus the fantasy stuff.

So, probably on a RARE occasion, a mage will be strong enough to open a gate to a new continent. It probably won't be as simple as going to a room and picking your destination.

What do you do in the world to cross vast bodies of water?
Hop a ferry and ride to the neighboring continent! Walk through an underground tunnel! (heh, well, if the continent is really close)

ALSO: You need to consider that every new map is going to take up a WHOLE server just to run it. So the chance of a WHOLE map just being an air city is about nill, BUT what could happen is it being above an already existing continent (ex: Change an already existant map to include the air city, instead of just making a whole new map for it)

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1. you wouldnt be FORCED to play there, if you want to lvl up and play at the certain map thats your choice...i never said you had to remort, just a certain level, which you would already be on your way to getting.

2. to i did say dumb newbies, not newbies, by meaning dumb i mean the annoying ones that beg and whine, plus the ones that dont read the newbie guide then keep asking you to teach them how to play

3. i was a newbie, only for a day tho, i learn fast, as this mod used to not have such a steep learning curve like it does now

4. right now JI has alot of things set to where you have to remort and it works great, again its YOUR choice to decide if you want these things or not, just a couple other maps would just serve like a weap.



right now gibby, the only thing i see that is against my statements are, simply, "everyone should be able to do anything as soon as they start", and games shouldnt work that way

i feel that people should have to "beat" certain things before progressing, this would also help PEOPLE be serve as "merchants", since they would have access to other stuff low levels would not.

in most games do you not have to beat a level before you can go to the next?

if that has worked since pac man, why cant it work here?

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Yes. the things that are most addictive are those that
(a) have random reinforcement
(b) large payouts

hence popularity of slot machines/lottery tickets

That's partly why folks wanna get into Uber.

I didn't mean to imply that an area to strive to get into is the ONLY thing to keep people interested in the game.
But after you hit a certain remort level, it does tend to get, well, just not as exciting.

As for air city. Yes, you can put one above a current continent. You can also make it large enough to dedicate a server to it, with interconnecting skyways and stuff. Imagine New York City in the sky...I mean, you have DEFINITE different cultures/areas there, all connected by bridges. Go across a bridge and you might think you're in a different world. Just replace water with air and you sorta see where I'm heading....ok, maybe I should call it skyworld or something and have different cities connected. But you could apply wind/rain/gravity conditions.

And no, I don't think going across servers ought to be as simple as walking in a transport room. You need right level/experience...as you said, a gateway. I'd love to do it Monty Python style, (what is your name, what is your quest, what is the air speed of an African Swallow....) but that's just my quirky sense of humor.

=P

Last edited by GoldenFlight on 05-08-2001 at 04:32 AM

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oooh I like this!

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nice sig.

ROFL!!!!

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gibby you sounding like you dun wanna hear out anyone elses ideas.

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Thoose are all good points for limiting people, but in a true WORLD of people, cultures, areas... You shouldn't be limited by something like a "level" or "remort".

The point of an MMRPG is immersion, and when you get a little message that says "You're not strong enough to go here", that would send me thinking "WTF?! Why don't I choose my own destiny, instead of having the server do it for me."

You would pretty much be making a hinderance to the player's freedom, which really isn't needed. If they can take it, they can take it. If not? They die.

So if I wanted to risk "bad-ass mofo bot 1" at level 10, that should be my choice. Chances are I'll be squashed before even touching his life, but there shouldn't be a reason why to try.
-------------
"gibby you sounding like you dun wanna hear out anyone elses ideas."

Such as? I've been debating with you on why I feel it shouldn't be "blocked off" for lower levels. I'm pretty damn firm on that view, since I have always hated being restricted in the way I wanted to play, ESPECIALLY when your trying to make a real "world" (for lack of a better word).

I liked Goldy's idea on the flying city, but was doubting that it would ever be a WHOLE map, which is why I suggested to just make it above an already existing one. I never said I didn't like that. I didn't like the idea of being able to go into a room with teleporters or gates because thats taking away some of the fun and difficulty of exploring the world and isn't really opening the door of possiblities, more of closing it.

Point: If I don't like your idea fully and completely, I'm going to TRY and help make it better. If you don't like my suggestion or comment, then don't listen to it. The idea that I don't want to listen to ideas is just stupid, most likely only because I haven't jumped on every idea you've given. If I don't like something, I'm not afraid to tell you. I just hoped everyone had thick enough skin on this forum to take a little constructive criticism.

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i agree with the arbitrary limitations on such things... unless there's a game reason... e.g. the teleport to uber dungeon that simply wont let you in without remort (easy enough to assume some magical means of detection)

er... i agree with what GW is saying about them, they shouldn't be there unless they're justified IC (in character).

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There's a good reason to limit certain areas by levels.

To keep CPU cycles down, AI must be compromised. This means that there's always the risk of getting a bot stuck somewhere and slowly chopping away at it from a corner or far away with spells.

Unless this problem is completely solved, then it would be preferable to keep lower level players from areas where they would normally perish. It's just a cheat prevention due to bad AI.

However, if the AI turns out smart enough, restrictions to areas should not be needed.

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can you improve the ai so that if it's not _actually_ moving toward a target, and it's being hurt, it will run back a few steps or something ?

alternately you could perhaps institute a system whereby if you are never attacked by a monster, you don't get xp for killing it ... this would be unfair to offensive spellcasters though.

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Right now my AI is smart enough to do that, but it sucks at wandering. It just goes in a straight line from interior to interior that belongs to its race. When another race comes by, it locks on and attacks. If it gets stuck for too long, it start hopping around frantically =]

The AI is still very uncustomizable. I can't control how it moves around really... like how often it jumps, how close it should go to its target etc...

Could be possible, but it sure as hell ain't obvious

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Bots jump now?

Nice.

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gibby, this isnt a REAL world, this isnt life, its just a game, and thats all

you say i like how games can be realistic

i say i like how games can be UNrealistic


we get enough of realistic **** every single day, at home, at school, or at work...

so why does everything gotta be played by the rules?

if you never try out new ****, then your just playing the same thing over and over and over...

yeah people could go to dungeons and they could go to everquest, but hell last time i checked this wasnt everquest or any other rpg, it was TRPG, and T2RPG, so if a man like ji has a chance to do something different, he should try it, he has the support

and its true, if a level 1 could hit an uber enough, he could kill it without getting hit once. so the ai does play a big part

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another thing is that WE LIVE IN A REAL WORLD, and things are blocked off to certain people, a poor man cant go into a nice place that requires a jacket, hey its discrimination. some places discriminate you on your skin color, status or other ****, why cant you do this with level? if the world we live in is "real", then it would make a "real" world

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PP - while i agree that in the real world people are discriminated against ... it's for a reason (whether it be a good reason is up to the observer)... if there's a game reason why we can't enter a place, fine ... if you walk through a door and it says 'bad luck you suck too much to come in here nyeagh' then _that's_ what i have a problem with.

even if its simply some flavour text 'the large man scrutinises you, judging your abilities and says, "run along little adventurer, this is no place for one as weak as you"'

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Ok, heres the deal:
Wether you like it or not, MMRPGs have to be modelled after a WORLD, and so far they've generally be an "Earth" world. I don't care if you live in a world or not, thats just the way any game works, its in a WORLD. With MMRPGs, the worlds are normally revolve around "real-world" stuff. Travelling to far off lands in boats, factions between races, etc, etc, etc.

We play games to escape reality... true, but its still a world, and it makes no sense to block off areas just to keep new players from "hard" places.

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did I miss something?

I thought areas were sectioned off for the protection of players.

I mean, I remember the time a high level Traveller escaped from the Den (I believe he must have survived a fall...I don't know how...maybe it was during beta), and he wandered over the hill just as I was heading to the tele for the lair. I was high enough to kill him, but think if he'd wandered over by Ethren and nailed a poor lvl 8 looking for paws.

Same thing with Orcs that got out of Yolanda heading for the mine.

Now I know some crazy warriors that like to head to Yolanda at level 4 or 7. It's possible. They survive. But these are hard core players and I wouldn't advise most newbies to do that. I mean Yolanda isn't restricted...its easy to get in and out of and its a flat playing field, so you could say it doesn't need to be restricted and be right.

But a world that is dangerous, just environment alone, never mind the monsters that live there...well if you have players exploring and die, they get frustrated and leave. Never give the game a chance, or lose so much dying that the character never really recovers (lck, weapons, money, whatever) and has a chance to play the game the way it was designed. Yes, they could start over, yes it was their choice. But it's nice to know some of those fail safes are in there.

It also keeps oldbies from tricking poor newbies into going places they shouldn't just to see what happens.
I've seen that done. "oh yeah, there's lots of good stuff in there, just jump in". That's just not good sportsmanship.

I'm not going to address the Real Life issue. Sportmanship is applicable to game situations, which is what this is.

BTW: sorry for the long post, but I like to get into analytical stuff too when I'm in the right place.

Last edited by GoldenFlight on 05-08-2001 at 04:33 AM

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If it was a true newbie, they wouldn't have the gold to hop a boat and ride to the "mean continent".

Also, a way to fix the problem with letting young players kill monsters stuck on objects is to make an exp cap... The highest ammount of exp a player can get from a kill is 15% of their level. This prevents super-power-levelling when lvl 90s let lvl 1s whack them, and it prevents newbies going out of their way to kill much harder monsters.

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gibby, if you want to this to be everquest, just go play everquest

but every rpg is the EXACT same thing, and some of you are just ripping ideas off of those rpg's, i dont want this to become another clone

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I agree with Pimp on this one, andI am not gonna go into why.

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Limits are ok if done right.

Remember Espan from way back? He was the starting bot for the big quest. If you weren't level 5, he snubbed you and said, "How can you help me if you fail to know Keldrin?" Things like that are ok, and desirable in some cases (Uber Zone being a prime example).

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