Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 615

Personally I like the way Postal_Service was headed in terms of simplifying everything.

The fact that the land would start off with nothing but resources sounds really cool.

FYI the smithing system planned is even more powerful than the one in T1RPG. Here's a quick rundown:
You can mine steel, chop wood, and also mine gems.

You would combine x amount of steel and y amount of wood, and depending on the type of gem, you'd get different prefix and suffix variations of the weapon.

So you'd put in 3 steal, 1 wood, and it would list the possible weapons:
ex:
-shortsword
-dagger

And you could pick which you want to smith out of those two.
Another example:
5 steal, 2 wood, 1 gem of swiftness
-claymore of swiftness
-longsword of swiftness

etc. Claymore would obviously cost more as well to smith together.

This essentially means that as long as there's at least 1 blacksmith, weapons can be created.

I am strongly considering creating multiple steps for the houses. I would design the entire house, and then strip the roof, save as another file. Strip two walls, save as another file, strip all walls, save as another file. Have about 4 "construction" steps for buildings (and walls as well).

Hitting walls with certain weapons would cause damage and after a certain amount of dmg the building would go a step down. Of course a sword against a wall wouldn't do anything, perhaps 0.0001 damage of a typical catapult.

As for deploying buildings/walls, you would deploy the base, and you'd get to deploy again (replace) at a new position as much as you want, and then you'd need to trigger something (#startbuilding maybe?) and then you wouldn't be able to move it anymore. Once you #startbuilding, you'd need to use perhaps a pickaxe on it similarly to Warcraft2 and build it up... You could have friends help you out, or have bots help...i dunno yet

As for declaring war and having taxes etc... thanks but no thanks =) I think we can do without extra rules

Also, if the owner of a house is not in the server, his/her bulidings become protected from damage. However when the owner drops from the server, his/her buildings are UNPROTECTED for the next 20 minutes for example.

Oh and one last thing... I'm not sure about WindWalkers or anything similar. Perhaps a temporary 5 second spell... but not permanent boots that give you way too much of an advantage.

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Registered: Apr 2001
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Now that sounds cool.

JI, mad props... That sounds exactly how I would want to be immerised in a world.

Blacksmithing: Excellent! Creates jobs for miners and B-Smiths... Could maybe Mages get in on the action by possibly getting special enchant spells? Think of it this way... instead of being able to easily make an uber-r337 claymore by just buying a few gems, ore, wood, and going to a B-Smith, have it also needing the enchant spell of a mage to complete and complement its power. (Along with maybe some precious gems or reagents?)

Housing: Great aswell! (Just make sure to also include a damaged house model for cut-up aswell, so that it changes to a damaged state (or just a banged-up texture) before collapsing.) (I bet you had that covered... but you know me... heh)

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: JI & PoG's RPG
Posts: 2479

On mining: How would you know where to mine steel and where to mine gems? Would there be a definate difference or would steel be mixed in with other gems? Also, wouldn't you mine iron ore instead?

Houses: Different weapon types should do different amounts of damage to houses and walls.

Idea for percent damage for weapon type:

Weapon	Houses	Walls/Castles
Archery	2%	0%
Piercing	10%	0.2%
Slashing	45%	0.5%
Bludgeoning	75%	2%
Siege	150%	75%

---edit: changed a percent

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Toaster

Last edited by Toaster on 05-11-2001 at 12:46 AM

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: :.::...:.:..:...::..:::.:..::
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Woah there Toaster... balance bro, balance...

100% for castle walls? Make that at most 25%...

Its kind of odd your percentages... um, I'm taking it as percent done to THAT wall... but I could be wrong, not sure what your thinking exactly since the house can get 150% damage.

Anyways, in terms of % of damage to a standard house or standard castle, I'd think of it as this:

Archery: .2% .01%
Piercing: .2% .01%
Slashing: .5% .02%
Bludge: 5% .5%
Siege: 55% 15%

You need to keep the weapon's damage low... since who ever heard of someone taking down a house with a sword or dagger? Siege weapons are used to get buildings... and the damage to a house wall should be a devestating 55% so 2 hits would take down a house wall. A castle on the other hand should be able to withstand about 6-7 times per wall.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 89

I made the war suggestion because I know I want large battles of players vs players as much as you JI, even Strider was wanting it.... you never got it to happen in T1, but the wars give an opportunity for it to happen in T2.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 924

TRPG clashes with the RTS genre! woohoo lol jk

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 2480

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zelgadis
grass shacks go down quickly when hit with a claymore.
or a broadsword for that matter.

or a fireball?

---

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 615

I guess I should reveal this now:

Mining will actually be like mining. The way it's going to work is that there will be rectangular rooms in the mines that are filled through script with rock-cubes. Each of these will take a few hits and then be destroyed. Every hit, you'd score something. There would be "patches" of rare minerals etc for people to find.

Btw there would be about 500+ (maybe even 2000) cubes like this in one area. As long as they have blank LOD's (so you can't see them 10 meters away), it should be just fine for FPS (been doin' some research on this for a while)

So essentially you'd be digging your way through the mines =)

Once all the cubes are gone, then the game would fill it back up automatically as long as no one is in the room. (People could potentially camp the room to stop the cubes from respawning, but I dont see it as much of an issue)

I'll post about the housing thing in a minute, it's supper time for me =)

And btw JI got a job today

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 2480

W00t!!! GO JI!!

*ahem*

Congratulations.

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Registered: May 2001
Location: In a house
Posts: 440

hey toaster i like that idea that u had about the towns and govt and making buildings and such...but how bout when u wanna buid somethin else u have to go somewhere to get the proper supplies (wood, stone etc) or trade with other towns to get those supplies...i think trading with other towns would be cool and u can form alliances and stuff and take over other towns if u wanted to and split wealth and land etc depending on the sizes of each town

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: JI & PoG's RPG
Posts: 2479

Bah, I need to be more clear.

The percents in my table aren't percent of the building's health. They're the percent of the damage that you would normally do that the buildings take.

Example:

I can hit a bot for 100 points of damage with a sword. If I attacked a house, the house would take 5 points of damage.

The 150% means that the house takes 1.5 times the damage that would be done to a player. On further thought, I'd take the wall/castle damage down from 100% to 75%.



Good job JI! Is it a good job? Is it in computers and/or coding?

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 615

Players would spawn with a Tent as part of their default equipment. They would get to pick where to build it.

A few bots would also join up with Tents and these would be the merchants/blacksmiths. They would walk around a bit and deploy their tents, then go into shop mode.

Any player including bots would have the potential ability to sell/buy or blacksmith. Selling/buying would be an ability that everyone starts off with and is not a skill. You would simply enable or disable the 'buy' keyword from triggering your sell inventory to other players. Bots would automatically have their 'buy' keyword enabled.

Smithing would be a skill ranging from 0 to 1000, and you'd need say 100 to get the blacksmith window to open at all. Other players could get you to smith weapons as long as you have the 'smith' keyword enabled. A skill of 100 in smithing would often ruin the materials used, but a skill of 1000 in smithing would be a guaranteed success. Prices wouldn't change depending on your skill. Also, bots would start off with say 900 or maybe even 1000 smithing.

Merchants bots would have a basic array of equipment for sale, like the military pick for excavating materials.

Once you gather enough materials, you'd be able to build a house. This process would be simple enough: You would need to be carrying the materials with you, and there would be an option in your inventory screen to see what houses/walls would be available for construction with the materials you have.

To deploy a house/wall, you would deploy similarly to #spawndis except only within a certain radius and with a friendlier interface. You would be able to 'replace' the house/wall until you found the perfect spot. As soon as you use your building tool on it (ie Military Pick for example), you can no longer move it and construction begins. It would take say 100 swipes at the building for it to be complete. The more people hitting it with their Military Pick, the faster it'd get built.

Any other weapon than the designated Building Tool would cause DAMAGE instead. The designated Building Tool would be, as you have probably guessed, the Military Pick (similar to Pick Axe in T1RPG). This means that if your home is under attack, you can pool your party members on against the wall being destroyed and start repairing it.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 175

On Seiges against houses ...

If you kill the player/bot manning the Seige weapon, can you capture it and use it against them? Or do you just decimate it?

Navy:

You talked about Houses being a Half-hour boat ride away, can we build War Ships? Just go down to the Beach, take the 500 Wood you chopped, and sit there hitting the wood with your pick for about an hour. Hire a Helmsman, then he would tell you to buy some Cannons (Ballistas?) to mount on your boat, they will be automatically mounted on your boat by Harry the Helmsman. Hows that sound?

Houses: Will there be certain types of walls besides the all purpose wall? Can you upgrade them? (Fortifications)

House additions: Mini Outposts:

Maybe we could build our own Keldrin Outpost, they can provide an early defense against enemy attacks on your House/Castle. If bots are garrisoned in there, and the enemy gets within a certain range, they will attack. They could provide a stragetic advantage, say Stevie comes a knocking on my Castle front door with his big ass Treb. He thinks I'm home when I'm at the Outpost he passed by because he didn't wanna waste time. I came strolling out the Bar and saw the Treb with Stevies symbol, I bash the crap out of him from behind. If I could capture that treb, I would.

Castle Defenses:

Ok, you spent all your freaking cash to build this monstrosity ... now you need defenses, but you can't afford any ... maybe you could build your own? If you seen the Messenger, you could have bots drop there huge ass boulders down a chute, then it could kill somebody. Stone traps, these could only be used it your castle is on a hill, outside. If attacker comes within certain range, Big rock will roll down. Rock is bashable, and dodgable, or you can blast it?

Comments:

Oh damn, I wish I could pick my own house ... Mafia House. Now those are people you can depend on ... some of them anyway. Can you quit a house? Or only way is to be Outcasted?

Knee deep ... seems you already went past knee deep...

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Registered: May 2001
Location: In a house
Posts: 440

i think if u make walls around your house u should be able to make a big gate...that way it keeps other ppl out (except thieves who could pick lock it if they r good enough) and you can go through it freely...also maybe u could make a moat or somethin around the walls maybe to make it harder for the ppl to get to...u could make like a bridge to get to the gate maybe and have Bot Sentries on the wall as guards who can shoot arrows at you that u supply for them (u hire them) and like if other ppl do get inside somehow maybe u could have like a sentry/knight bot that u hire to go kill them off or somethin

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 175

I would suggest that you make Seige weapons not very accurate, that way, you wouldn't buy just 2-3 Catapults to take down a castle. Having little accuracy would give the Defenders to react before thier castle gets crushed even before they get out the door.

Then again, Outposts would sort of solve this. But what if your outpost got destroyed? I would rather rely on Storming the Castle and take over it, sneak in and kill everyone.

I request that have a limited # on seige weapons to be used in a Attack to 4 or 5. It'll go easy on our comps, lives and wallet.

How to declare war?? This isn't any card game...
How would we declare war, and make it fair so that some nutcase won't overwhelm a Rookie player with his POS shack? A certain restriction maybe? Say until that certain reaches Stronghold/Keep/Castle/Fort/Ect...

More to come after these messages!

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Proud to be in America!
Posts: 580

I like the Ideas so far, but I have one thing I want to say. If the bots are the starting merchants, then they determine the location of the town. People would most likely set up their tents next to a shop for convinience.

This isn't particuarly good because bots can't really pick the best locatoins. I mean, a bot could set up his shop in the middle of nowhere. You would need to make it so that the admins or players, in some way would pick the locatoins for the first shop, otherwise it is likely that the bots will do something stupid.

I like the Idea of having tents to start out with and stuff. One question though, wouldn't you need carpenters? I like the Idea of having something like the "packs" in my first post. You could go to the carpenter or somethin, get a "wallpack" place it, and have 100 or so swings before it is up. That kind of thing. It also might be logical to have some sort of storage place at the carpenters shop where people can store thier raw materials. (Players who become carpenters can do this as well) That ways people would not have to lug around exorbent amounts of wood.

Just a couple more thoughts...

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 924

dunno if some one gave this idea yet, but we gonna be able to hire bots to protect our houses?

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Registered: May 2001
Location: In a house
Posts: 440

ya i like that idea of hirin bots...and maybe u can train them to do certain things like arch/pierce/slash etc...and like they can get stronger somehow if u train them to

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Registered: Mar 2001
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Posts: 2480

I think that suggestion was buried in the other "design doc" thread. It's a good idea. Having "mercenary" or "guard" bots.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: JI & PoG's RPG
Posts: 2479

I hope so. I would like to see mercenary bots hireable to do many things, such as house building, resource gathering, perhaps mining, guarding, and helping assist on town attacks.

All these new options will make mercenary a profitable job for players for once.


I hope to reopen Toaster's Mercenary Service. d=

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 615

I suppose it'd be a good idea to have predetermined markers where the first bots would deploy the initial tents. A few markers here and there in a concentrated enough area, and the bots would walk to a random one and deploy there. These markers would be coded into the map.

As for carpenters, I say we just use the blacksmith but perhaps rename him to something more global.

I sorta like the idea of "wallpacks" because it would keep things much simpler for both me as a developer and for you as players. Except they wouldn't be wallpacks, but some kind of magical concoction that creates a vortex sucking up all materials and concentrates it inside a magic box... or something... As long as it has an explanation.

The magic involved in this box would also help explain the deploy method (spawning).

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: JI & PoG's RPG
Posts: 2479

Wallpack: Scroll of creation/construction/building.

Blacksmith: How about workshop? The guy you talk to is labeled Foreman.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Washington State
Posts: 676

Would it be possible to code the bots to somewhat roam for a bit first, then group together and have them attack a currently active/online person's house/castle? I think if you can defend your house against "bot wars" that'd be another good way to gain exp...

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Registered: Mar 2001
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Posts: 105

what if the building material is something naturally psycho-active... shapeable by thought.... so basically you buy your shop pack, house pack whatever that's been mind-crafted by some guy who does that kinda thing (a mind crafter or whatever) and when you get to where you want it it forms the structure 'programmed' into it ... simple explanation and it covers the 'why can't i shape it how i want later' problem ... a PC simply lacks the skills. to solve the 'why cant i learn how'? problem you say it requires you to be part-some-fairly-rare race and it so happens no one can play a part-whatever.


blacksmith - blacksmith could be replaced simply with 'craftsman' which covers all your bets.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Basement
Posts: 659

JI have you tested to see how many objects can go into a T2 map? I know that t1 crashes if you go over a thousand or so.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 615

I once spawned 2000 disc launchers... that worked

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: :.::...:.:..:...::..:::.:..::
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Nifty... Nifty... Nifty...

So, how do you handle house trading?

I'm sure some people would pay more for good locations if you wanted to get into real-estate.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Basement
Posts: 659

No matter what housing method you choose, i dont want to be stuck staring at something swinging a pick axe 1000 times. I would rather just have the house build itself over a couple hours or something, i could stay and watch the neato building effects, or go off and do whatever i want. If i left the server, construction on my house would stop untill i logged back on.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4229

Why not use the current tent-erecting code for building a house? Once you #build castle, you must stay within a certain radius for so long, or something bad(building canceled, etc) happens.

To do the #build housetype command, you would need skill in building, as well as the required materials. Use the same skill requirements for building as for smithing, I like how you did that, probably because I started the smithing idea on the main thread. :-)

Once your house is built, you automatically get a zone around it IF the house is of a certain size or more. If you have a house big enough to get a zone,(read, village) AND has a clerk you can then #build special items, such as walls, etc. Save general principle for building them. (though I suppose it would be possible to use the hit-with-pick method as well, it just might be tougher to code)

Advantages: You could get a sleepzone(ie, bed), a chest(s), etc. I also suggest having the ability to #hire specialized bots. Have a dozen or so predefined defender bot loadouts, a stationary merchant, a craftman, a town crier, a clerk, a mercernary, slavemaster, a benefactor, and a mayor.

Edit: You may want to make buying one bot, such as the mayor, required before you can buy any more.

Defenders: They come with a rusty dagger, and automatically use the best weapon they have. People would then have to equip thier bots. Higher levs would naturally be more expensive. Must have Mercernary to buy.

Merchant: Having a merchant in your town would be both convenient and possibly profitable, assuming you can levy taxes.

Town Crier: Have him shout a owner-defined piece of info (set it using something like the current #setinfo) whenever someone says hi to him.

Clerk: Gives the ability to add more items to your village. Also is required to let people pay an owner-defined amount to build within the village area. Without one, nothing can be erected in the village zone.

Mayor: Allows you to set a fee for entering, or a flat tax on all items bought/sold in town. Also looks cool.

Craftman(also known as smith): Same stuff as you guys already decided.

Mercernary: Allows you to purchase Defender bots. Also hires out assassins to any person who wants to rent one.

Benefactor: Everytime someone says hi to him, he gives them one item, until he runs out. Has a inventory like a merchant, owner/passerby defines what item he gives out by what he throws to the bot.

Slavemaster: Rents out bots, like mercernary, but they are almost worthless for fighting. However, they have high wieght capacity, etc, and could be used for carrying stuff/travelling merchants.


Town Takeovers

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4229

Stuff to put in villages. In order from worst to best.

Walls
WoodWall
StoneWall
MagicWall
SteelWall

Gates
WoodGate
StoneGate
SteelDoor
MagicPortal
Porticullus

Locks
Latch
DrawString
HeavyLatch
Bar
Keyhole
Padlock
HeavyBar(gates only)
Reinforcedkeyhole(gates only)

Dwelling Buildings
Shack
Shanty
Hut
House
Dwelling
Outpost
Manor
Castle

Utility Buildings
Shop
LargeShop
Stable
StorageRoom

Traps
Snare
DeadFall
ViperBox
Quicksand(no damage, just immobilizes for a long time)
TripwireCrossbow
PitTrap
MagicTrap(powerclouds if disturbed)
DeathTrap(NOT install-kill, just very powerful)

Other
Statue
Fountain
Bridge
Moat
Pillar
Altar
Arium

Notes on Traps:
Have a 0-1000 skill for trapping. The higher the skill, the better chance of success in laying the trap. If the skill is less that 50, failure is certain. At 1000, success is certain. If you fail, you have a random chance of the traps damage being done to the trapper.

Last edited by DeathMerchant on 05-12-2001 at 03:16 AM

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