Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 615

Ok I dunno but I don't wanna get knee deep into coding this family stuff and then come up with a better idea in the middle of it.

I have a loose vision of what I want gameplay to resemble, but it doesn't involve a complicated family system.

What I ultimately want, and I'm sure you'll agree that it'd be really sweet, is to be able to go off on our own on a boat and go North East for say 20 minutes and get off on an island and build a house/castle of our own.

The part I haven't quite figured out is what advantages deploying this house would have. I thought that perhaps when you deploy a house, you either make it join a village, or start a village.

Like you could start your own village right next to someone else's, but obviously this other village wouldn't like that and would take over yours (somehow). Or you could go on a deserted island 30 minutes away on boat (which is possible, infinite repetitions of terrain allow this) and start a village that no one would likely try to conquer for a while (giving you time to build up a defense). This defense is one of the key gameplay ideas that I haven't been able to clearly outline.

This is why I'm posting. I need some input. This is the thread that may define how T2RPG is played.

For those of you in Public Discussion reading this, you can post in Public Discussion and I'll even consider bringing in a few Public users into Private based on their ideas in that thread.

The Public thread is located here: http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~rpg/sho...=&threadid=2469

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The reward for owning a house?

Status, Guild House, Item Space?

The only game that comes to mind is UO, which has a fantastic house system. People buy houses to place items in it, guild houses, enlarge egos, decorate, and have it as a meeting point. Theres something special to owning your own house next to lakefront property, and then meeting neighbors, browsing vendors... etc etc.

(If you wanted to ever try out UO btw, I know how to get free accounts and I can burn you the CD)

Anyways, villages are ok I guess... but you don't need to officially code in villages for it to be a village. If you wanted to start a village for the mafia lets say, then simple build close to each other, and if you really wanted to get into it... deisgnate different houses for different buildings. Banks, Merchants, Etc...

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The thing is I'd like the gameplay to revolve around owning a house.

Having a house would be a primary goal in the game besides leveling. And owning multiple houses would just make you cooler than everyone else =)

I want risk to be involved in owning a house/castle. I want it so you can literally capture someone's house with enough effort (either through thieving or murder... or both).

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Problem is...

If your newbie A, would you like your 1 room shack that you worked OH-SO-HARD to get being stolen by a b@st@rd-child oldbie for his/her sick pleasure?

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Yes if the newbie didn't take proper precautions to protect his/her shack.

And your statement isn't based on much because we haven't decided on gameplay. You're jumping to conclusions before we've even decided how taking over a house would work.

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So to steal a home you'd need

A) Great stealing skills

B) Be stronger then owner of the house

C) Get a group and own the owner (lol)

Why risk and spead all your money on a house? Like GIb said. To storage items, show off your home, have a meeting place for clans and stuff. Or to build your own town with the help of your firends.
Maybe owning a home you can "buy" a merchant and give him items to sell at your set price?
But owning a home players will go AFK more and be safe inside...and can train too. But there has to be a limit on house per player...like 10? more, less?
Would be nice to have a Castle of your own and with a zone too...
BUT then players will spawn a house(s) near a Dungeon
or on the entrance and be the only ones inside...(till admin deletes it , so admins will need a #delhouse at lvl 3?)
Will you be able to cut down trees and build chairs and stuff for your house?

All I can think off right now...

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Oh yeah and will you be able to PK anyone in your house? Or have the option to make your house protected or not?

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Location: Minnesota
Posts: 592

well lets tighten this "loose" vision up.

first off. are you saying that we can deploy the houses anywhere or as thought before at pre set spawn points?

i think i may be bringing up a seriously complex system... but, this is just how i feel.

i like the idea of maybe raising towns, not just having a city pop up in a matter of seconds. IF admins will still be in Trpg... possibly require them to fine tune it.

but i think that you should need at least 2 people to build a one room house.

materials are going to be required correct?

if so, you'd need help hauling the materials... and i think you'd need time for that.

3 different materials i think should be needed

1: Wood, simple houses, and possible parts of larger builldings.

2: Steel (or any other building metal), basically for building small towns/villages (Possibly Banks?)

3: Stone, for castles, bridges, any other thing that requires stone.

i think that Towns should be limitless, as in you can continue expanding. Also, Guild houses, for guilds they ask your permission to build on your land. They can only have guild houses in Townships (except thieves?)
this agreement would mean that any guild within a township cannot, under any circumstances try and gain control over your town... they would help protect you, and you will protect them. another reason for bringing guilds into your territory is to gain special advantages... dunno what tho, that can maybe get talked about later...

all im saying is i think that the houses/towns/guilds should be used together, to get a variety of different aspects playable in the game.

also... another thing ive been thinking about for the towns... .for NPCs... you should need to find them, maybe walking around, all having different items or capacitys. You need to find them, give them a reasonable deal (some preset thing... automatic, maybe like rent... you give them a good rate, they stay) then you can show them a spot and have them stay there.
they will need so much room for items and storage also.

doing it this way could diversify the towns very much, and make it funner... like if you find a merchant with better items for cheaper, boot your other merchant out, bring a new one in.


ok, im leading myself wayy offtrack... im making stuff up as i go, so ill stop...

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Christ JI, give me a break!

quote:

---

The thing is I'd like the gameplay to revolve around owning a house.

Having a house would be a primary goal in the game besides leveling. And owning multiple houses would just make you cooler than everyone else =)

I want risk to be involved in owning a house/castle. I want it so you can literally capture someone's house with enough effort (either through thieving or murder... or both).

---

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Here are my ideas on houses.

Starting out:

When you join a game, the only residence you would have is the one in the major city, which cannot be seriously affected in any way short of owners death. The player would stay in this until enough wealth had been aquired to move on to a better dwelling.

Moving to a pre-existing village:

The next step up could be a house in a village out in the world. This would be slightly larger and nicer than a city house, so you could store more stuff here. The risks would increase, however, as another band of players could come over and conquer/destroy the village. However, your responibility in defending the village is little more than go out and fight. After this, you have two choices: get a better house in this village, or move out on your own.

Upgrading your standing in the same village:

As you increase your standing in the village, you could buy/build a larger house. This house would have all the benefits of a larger house. As your influence and wealth grows, you might be invited to become part of the government of that village, and might even be given living space in the central building (either government center or a castle). You could become an important figure in the town, or even gain leadership when the old ruler dies/moves on/steps down.

*Other* ways of becoming ruler of a village:

If you become powerful, wealthy, and influencial enough in a town, you could gather some friends and attempt to depose the current ruler and take over yourself. This would be done by forming a mob, attacking the central building, and killing/chasing out the current leader. Of course, you face the risk of the villagers rising up against you or the old leader coming back with a larger force...

Going out on your own:

If you wish, you could build your own house out in the wilds. Initally, you would have just your own house. This house could be as large as you want. Of course, you have the sole responsibility of defending it from other players/towns, or even roving bands of bots. You have the option of remaining a loner/hermit if you wish.

Your own village:

If you can attract other people to you, you can start your own community. These people would build houses of their own near you or buy houses you built. As your town grows, you can choose to build places such as banks and merchant stalls. The size of these buildings can increase as your town grows. You can build defenses and train an army if you grow large enough.

Defending your town:

Many types of defenses can be built. Walls can be built around the town. Guard towers can be construted. Bot guards can be hired, or player armies can be raised. Boiling oil pots could be made. Grow large enough, and you can make a castle to centralize your town and defense.

Attacking a town:

As you grow, you may want to take over a nearby settlement. Siege weapons, such as catapults, battering rams, ballistas, trebuchets, and others could be built and wheeled out to the site. Bots could be hired to help with an attack. Various buildings would have different amounts of strength. For example, slashing, bludgeoning, and siege weapons could be used against a simple wood house, but only siege weapons would do signifigant harm to a stone wall. Siege weapons could be destroyed as well by player attacks.

Town management:

All these things cost money, so a player could charge a tax to all the people living in the town. Some players might be conscripted into the army. Villagers would be required to help defend if the enemy breaches the outer wall.

Building the houses:

You could build these all yourself, but it would require much time and effort. Bots could be hired to assist with building, or players could be hired as well. Materials could either be bought from a merchant, gathered yourself, or bots/other players hired to gather them.



These are just some ideas. Much more could be added.

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That sounds awesome Toaster. Really great job!

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He said he DIDN'T want a complicated house system... You know how hard coding a proper tax system might be? lol! It's bad enough now! ;-þ

My idea goes with Zel's... The more houses built in a specific area would increase size, perimeter, and possibly defense. If you get 2, you get a nice little homestead instead of a shack. 3-5 houses would get you a village. 4-6 would be a trading post. 7 and above would be a castle. Thus, you can see many children playing nicely. The only problem I see with it is too many people making a character, deploying a house and then deciding to start over. Is it possible to delete the house?

Also, the MMRPG idea works here. If you build a HUGE successful township, and then the server is shut down, the town would still be alive.

As for stealing, I don't think you should be able to steal a shack or homestead. You can only attack villages, but not take over (who would want a dirty old village?). You can take over trading posts and castles, therefore running high risk.

As for the idea of becoming ruler by wealth... Doesn't that unbalance it? Like when an admin becomes corrupt and gives a player 9999e+9.60596054 coins, he would become ruler. Nope. I would be really pissed if some admin gave a guy +1 coin more then me to become ruler of my castle.

Also, if you build a shack to a village around a castle, you must pay tax. Not a complicated tax. Just a normal tribute, like 30,000 coins. This would mean you would have to assign someone to get the money.

These ideas could combine into one of the most interesting games I've ever played. Thieves could hide in the back alleys of a trading post and just scurry around robbing (I'd like that!).

Also, I wanna see my coin system implemented. Coppers, silvers and golds. That's how it went back then. Try reading Magic: The Gathering books. T2RPG would be like that! That would be a good spending of my now valuable time.

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quote:

---

K.I.S.S

Keep It Simple Stupid

---

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Because that's what it was like back then. Gold was treasured and precious, you know. It wasn't in abundance to create millions of gold coins!

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Just because they did it doesn't mean its the best way...

Plus, we're making a game... not a medieval simulator.

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Clarification:

When I said wealth was needed to take over, I meant poor players couldn't finance the takeover. More money just means you have more and better stuff, making it easier to do. Even if you're 10 times as rich as the current ruler, you've still gotta attack him.

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lol....

Gib, currently, you have to pay over *1000* coins for... drumroll... a KNIFE!!!!!! You could probably hire a body guard for one gold back in those days, which is about 100 coppers. Coppers, silvers and golds are in all the books...

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Serious inflation in Keldrin.

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Divide all monetary ammounts by 10 and that'll help your inflation a bit

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Also, that inflation can be easily combatted by good thinking beforehand.

Will silver fix that? Nah...

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So, uh... bakc to villages.

No more coins, VILLAGES!

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i think if you create a house 'way out there' it should establish a zone of protection (in a non-magical sense) around itself where monsters won't go (i can forsee some problems with this depending on how bot paths are laid out) nasically so all your mates can come camp on your lawn.

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Money: Basically, 'way back then' goods and services were traded for other goods and services (ie. I trade a newborn calf for a sword to protect my farm). Coinage wasn't really created until mid 700's. Even then, only rich people held the money.

Houses: I think that a bot who comes on a town should attempt to attack it if it isn't guarded correctly.

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and remember...I always think conceptually...trying to spark ideas in others NOT provide technical details ...

(Gawd it's nice to be "retired"...lol)

and yes, the K.I.S.S. quote is from me...(it was really important when programming million dollar projects.)


In the time setting JI is trying to set up, owning land meant more than you were just wealthy. It gave you rights. You could "vote". It allowed you certain status and gave you access to important items, things and places. LANDOWNER = POLITICAL AUTHORITY.

Usually the biggest land/house owner in the area was the local squire (think mayor). As a squire, or noble, you would be able to call lots of shots around your area, and make decisions about who lived there, etc.

It also gave you a way to increase your money by renting out land/houses. Some of those houses could be rented out...you could run a "hotel".

Also: JI, are you planning on having horses? If so, wouldn't it be nice to stable them? That protects them from being stolen by horse thieves.

Security/building villages: Find a way for people to SHARE walls of their houses. In Europe, houses are built ONTO each other for protection. They often share common back walls or side walls. This would encourage people to group together to automatically form villages.
Its safer that way. No back doors, no back of the house or side of the house. People can build them in long rows or in groups of 4, 8, whatever. Find a way to make a "build house link" command or something. It's also cheaper.

This might encourage a whole new trade of masons and builders, which would be another way to make money.

Once the village is formed, by people coming together for natural protection, then "homeowner associations" could form, votes being given in proportion to the largest land/house owners. These associations could then make decisions about hiring "security", inviting merchants, getting perimeter walls built....THEY could determine whether or not to collect "taxes" locally, how much, whatever. They may want to keep it simple and just pool money.

Leave it in the players hands to figure out how to deal with finances for their local areas. If the system isn't the same in another village...well, thats part of the game.

Other players can decide which village they want to be part of based on information from other players about whether taxes are fair, etc.

Houses that stand alone...well, they have a lot of risk and none of the benefits of a village... (paths, security, merchants, etc.) so they shouldn't need to pay taxes.
Keeps it simpler that way. Maybe they're building out in the middle of nowhere, not only for location, but to avoid taxes. That would then encourage the start of new villages.

It balances out that way.

That's top of the head for now.

Last edited by GoldenFlight on 05-10-2001 at 03:49 AM

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Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
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Sorry Gib, you just haven't been on my good side lately...
I feel that every post you make is an attack of some sort that I have to defend

I'll try to be nicer to you from now on

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Eh here is my ideas thrown out into the open.

Starting out.

Ahh a new server new times. Lookin for the local town? TOO BAD! There is no local town in the beginning! It is up to people to build the town. People who join would get a "Shack Pack" wich would auto maticly set up a one room shack. They would have to pick a location (have to be on flat land) based on convinience. It could be next to water, a dock, forrest for wood, etc etc. the Idea here is that it would be based on LOCATOIN. The sucess of your village will depend on the location. Build a town out in the middle of nowhere? THen you will get few inhabitants.

What about shops? Shop packs could be made available. Well they could put anywhere, where the land is flat, and it would be up to the merchants doing the building where to put em. If they don't make thier shops convienient, then they won't get any business. Once again based on LOCATION.

After a while.

A person could have started up towns. Newbies who join instantly get one "Shack Pack" That allows them to set up a small one room shanty where ever the land is suitable. They would logically want to put it where there is other people, in the maturing town. Shops would come up. People could purchase "Add packs" this pack wouldenable a person to make thier house larger, provided there is room for it.

Where do these Packs come from?

They would come from the carpenter. A player or NPC could take up this profession. They would be supplied with wood by lumberjacks (another profession). They would create the packs and such. Masons could make the "packs" to make walls or castle stuff and such.

Just my idea of simplifying things with the building. Or maybe I am making things more complicated... I don't know...

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Well, duh, little grass-thatched shacks are more prone to getting mobbed then security-tight castles are..

The little shacks should be way easier to break into than bigger homes.

But, I think there should be more MOTIVE to try to break into the more high-class areas. After all, robbers don't go busting into half-house half-tent homes and stealing $2, a candle, and a walking stick. They go after rich people, cause they want MONEY. Of couse, the rich people have better security than the poorer people.

The village or town leader (or the one who started the village/town) should choose whether they want a quiet, low-profile village or a booming, industrious town.

Also, if the house-owner/house-residents are present in the house at the time of a break-in, I think that no special notice should be sent to the town leader or no special event should happen. Back then, I don't think they went whining and complaining to the king. They kept their dignity as well as their pride and grabbed a sword and did away with the thief themselves.

Once a house-owner dies, his or her house and family should become vulnerable to break-ins, mobs, and other attacks. The house-owner would have to return to the house to secure it.

Also, shouldn't families share traits? Traits run in the blood, and the family should all be similar in fighting, working, or money-making talents. If the skill system is in T2, much of the family should have the same modifiers. Maybe most of a family would be good in archery, and most of them wouldn't fare so well in hand-to-hand battles. Of couse, genetic mutations can occur and you could have an archer family with one swordsman.

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Declaring all out wars with other towns (dont know if anyone has thought this up):


If the house owner is alive, or not in the server it should be inpeniterable except by theives, which can only steal items from your loot which is extremely difficult if you have nice defense, traps, and locks.

Only things that can be attacked are towns, but I dont know how this will work because if only 2 people from a large town are on the server and 12 are on from another nearby town then it wouldnt be fair, the only way a town can be attacked by another is by actually "declaring war". One declares war, the opposing town has a choice to accept the war or pay a fine.
FINE: If you back down from a war it will cost money, if your a weak town surrenduring to a strong one then the cost would be small, but if your equal in strength then the cost just might be even more costly then fighting the war itself. Once war is declared then a date is made by a computer, like a week later, the war will last maybe about 4 hours of pure fighting between the towns. In each town there should be a bot telling recent news with the town, it will tell its status, any wars and dates, ect....

Declaring wars can be very beneficial, you can pay off some town debts if they do not accept. If the enemy does not reply in 48 hours of declaring war then it is automatically considered as a surrender and you get the fine automatically. You cannot declare more then 2 wars at a time, you cannot declare war with the same place again until another week, or until they declare war on you.
Accepting wars, a leader or any person appointed by the leader can accept wars, you might know your town will get beat but your willing to put up a measly 4 hour fight so you dont have to pay their ass any money then you will accept war. The opposing town just might not even attack you, but once two places are in war, either one can attack the other at any time in those 4 hours. The town becomes vunerable to the enemies much more then it is when not in war. They can raid houses, destroy traps, and even doors, kill merchants, and bankers. Escort theives deep into the town where much of the loot is held so they can pick chests. Although you might be losing money by putting up this defense you know they are losing money by having to put up their offense. If your defense is strong enough, all your members of the town show up for those 4 hours (should be 24 hours later, plus a good time because many of these kids go to school) then you can totally mess up the enemy. They can waist all their cash for an all out attack and fail, and they just screwed themselves up. (Like the burning of Moscow when Napolean attacked Russia)

ALLIES: If there are more then one town, city, or village that are weak anough they have the ability to ally with any other town. The limit of allied towns should be 3, and based on the power of the allies joining together limits allies becoming too powerfull (2 meduim towns can ally together, one small town and one large city can ally, ect). If you declare war on an allied town, then it will be like declaring war on 2 or 3 towns at once.



THat is all for now

Last edited by Dragoon on 05-10-2001 at 06:23 AM

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JI, in order for ppl to create their own towns wouldn't they need some sort of adminish UI? I mean like moving buildings exactley where they want them, merchants and so on.

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hmmm...JI was talking about a need to build defenses.

Are you thinking in terms of weaponry, fortification, or people? Or all of the above?

Ok, here’s some ideas meant to stimulate more creative thinking:

Villagers won't have much to defend themselves with other than high walls (maybe spiked) and maybe (if they could afford to build it), a catapault (mortar canon?) of some kind. Also archers, because thats usually the first line of defense.

Folks in stone castles can afford burning oil. They can also use those sweet little missle turrets that Galadriel so creatively figured out how to deploy. Skin those, and you have some serious "magic" defense that would cost a lot of money. Call them dragonsnakes or something. (Thanks Gala...what a great idea!!)

Other off-the-wall suggestions: traps, mazes, guard dogs (plenty of good monsters to pull from as well as bots), mines (and satchel charges must be good for something), is there a way to use landspikes and spider clamps?

Createzone , (go Trident!) not only for your village, but for an area of defense around it: use it with setvelocity so people move slower, (quicksand), which would technically be a trap. Totally impractical but fun to think about. Might also be a good thing to counteract air attacks.

And...can we make use of the cloning feature of T2? (Go Galadriel again!!) As a “magic spell” that allows you to “double” the size of your army during an attack. Of course, that’s double the risk of being killed. Make it available to mages/clerics so they get invited into villages and can contribute. Or have it be a “magic” parchment spell that can be purchased for a large sum. Make it a one-time use; need to purchase another one to use it again. Needs to be a time limit, or mana consumption or something, so this does not get used as an attack. (Of course, you COULD use it as an attack…which also gives you double risk on the offensive side).

------summary to spark ideas-----

1st line of defense: fortification/ limiting access: Most first line defenses consist of being on high ground, or building high walls, moats, islands, and blocking off bridges. This would be wasted if folks can attack from the air (windwalkers, etc.) Being able to use the forcefield features to counteract that (#casthouseshield) would be nice. Creating zones, altering the environment in the zone – setvelocity for instance go here.

2nd line of defense: weaponry: (archers, catapaults, oil). – add turrets, mines, traps, etc. here.

Last line of defense: manpower/ fighters. (clone feature, hiring mercenaries, bots).

--------------
I know somebody out there can shred this or build on it!

Last edited by GoldenFlight on 05-10-2001 at 04:56 PM

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