Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 279

One thing I noticed while playing UO is the fact that there where too many houses on the map. Every possible place that could have a house had one. It kinda got annoying in the fact that you would be in the "wilderness" and there would be more houses than trees.

Instead of being able to own multiple houses why not keep it at 1. Start off with a one room shack, then if you want, run to the nearest town to buy a "remodel" kit from a real estate agent to maybe add another room. Along those lines you could also buy kits that had deffenses, more storage, a different color (LOL right before the hardest dungeon there sits a BRIGHT pink house), and if there is enough room around your house you can add a wing or two. If your house becomes large enough you can buy a merchant bot to sell all those broadswords you pick up along the way.

With the room thing, have different rooms. ie... Bedroom, storage room, pub!!! Also anyone that is on your group list can gain access to your house (Except for your room and your newbies room-see below) Also you can set permisions for any chests that are in the house. With this, it would allow for guilds and such to have a house. Or lower levels could band together to buy a larger house.

One problem I notice with the house idea is the fact that there are a lot of people that would get to the point where they get a house and leave the server. This would leave the house just sitting there. Eventually a server that has ran for awhile would be filled with house and the UO effect would take place. So maybe have an upkeep cost per realworld week. After x amount of weeks of not paying the bill, the house would crumple. Anything that was in storage at the house would be in a chest that anyone could grab where the house was. The weekly cost would depend on how many remodel kits you have on it. Not only would this upkeep cost keep the houses down to a min, but also keep the house size proportional to the level of the owner. That way if some newbies gets a windfall from an oldbie of 1mil, they don't have some huge house.

Speaking of newbies. I think that when you build your house for the first time, or set this option with the real estate bot, you can have the option of being a "foster" parent to a newbie. What this option will do is give you a room for free, a storage chest, and an amount of cash equivilent to the newbie's level. For every level the newbie advances you get an extra 1000 coins. So at lvl 1 you get 1000 coins, when (s)he gets to level 2 you get 2000...ect. All the way up to 18,000 for lvl 18. At that point the newbie is kicked out of your house and has to go at it on his own. At anytime you or the newbie can decide to leave/kick them out of the house. But if you kick them out before they are 18, you lose a certain amount of gold or EXP depending on the newbies level (the lower the level, the more you lose). Unless the newbie hasn't leveled in a certain amount of time. This way you won't be stuck with someone who just wanted to see how the game works, then leaves for ever. Now the extra room/chest will be the newbies. Only you and the newbie can open the door to his room. And only the newbie can get into the chest. After thirty minutes of the Newbie being kicked out of the house (Or getting to level 18) you can get into the chest. If your foster newbie is pked while you are on, you lose some gold/EXP. This will promote helping out the newbies, and if you get good enough at it, you could make a fortune.

All of the house options (aka house deeds, remodel kits, upkeep payments, foster options ect..) would be taken care of with a bot in the nearest town. Also with this bot you could transfer deads to other players, or setup to have a co-owner. That way you and a friend have full admin rights to a house. (except for moving it and adding/deleting co owners, wich you would still have the right to. Moving would cost some too)

Now for the defenses. Have a lockpicking skill. That way someone could potetnially get into your house. But different defences would also be availible. Tougher locks (on both doors and chests), alarm systems, all the way up to the ultimate....robotic bow. Someone walks in the front door who is not on your group list why you are not there gets pelterd with nifty arrows. With the alarm system, it would notify you if someone breaks into your house, and tell you who they are.

Ok there is my ramblings on the house/family thing. hopefully this will get some good feedback seeing as to how this is my first post here on the private forum.

Later.

Edit/ To stop people from pking there own newbies: First time you do you can't have a newbie for x amount of time, second time 2x, and third time you lose the newbie room/chest and can never have a newbie again /edit

Last edited by TangWei on 05-29-2001 at 08:05 PM

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Proud to be in America!
Posts: 580

I like that idea of being able to take newbies under Foster care thing. That would definetly help promote helping newbies. As for kicking the newbie out at 18, that is perfectly logical, after all only three more levels and he can buy booze, he should be responsible to take care of himself.

One thing though, I don't thikn the newbie should get kicked out of the house after a certain amount of time. After all if you are fostering him, he should be able to stay in as long as he wants, provided he is under level 18. They may need sanctuary, and the houes that they are living in would be a perfect option. So that way you could protect them, even though you are not on the server.

Just a couple thoughts...

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 399

I don't think the UO problem with houses will affect us, with the ability to destroy houses, as well as the sheer size of the map. While crowding in one tiny area may be possible, you have to remember how we have only 20-40 people on each server max - then you have bots. Say, 60 different people instead of the couple thousand on UO. Besides, it won't be that hard to just keep walking in one direction until you find a "perfect spot"


There won't be enough people to fill the demands for your crisis.. but in the case of overcrowding of an area, something will have to be done..


Suggestions:

-- House decay like UO, if you don't play enough, your house goes away. (people will get upset, bad idea)

-- Minimum radius, while this will help keep people from crowding really close together, if anyone wanted to make a city, it is now impossible.

-- 1 house per person, as you suggested TangWei, this would work as well, but what if I wanted a house in the mountains, a house on the beach, and a house WAY WAY WAY out in the middle of nowhere where I would stash my good loot?

-- 1 house per 20 levels, i.e.
     lvls 1-20 : 1 house
     lvls 21-40 : 2 houses
     lvls 41-60 : 3 houses
     lvls 61-80 : 4 houses
     lvls 81-100 : Castle? or 5 houses?
     This could also solve "twinking" which really unbalances the game. You couldn't just be given a ton of money and build a castle at lvl 1.. unless of course you want this to be part of the game.

Any other suggestions?

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 279

Reply to Postal: What I was thinking about as far as kicking them out was that what happens if someone creates a char, plays a couple of days, and never comes back? That way after so much time you can kick them out with no penelties. Also what happens if you get that newbie that just a pain in the ass? He's mouthing off to everyone and just being a royal pain. Well everytime he gets pked for being an ass, you get penalized. This way you have an option to get rid of him. Granted you will get hit with a fine or something, but in the long run you can save some money.

Reply to Aleman: I was thinking more along the the lines of all the people, not just the ones playing at the moment. I know GSN Temp as over 700 char files. Now with maybe 200 of those financially able to own a house or two, that's about 275 houses on a map. Now granted the map in Ironsphere will be a bit bigger, but still with all those houses plus all the npc's running around, lag is going to be a *****. This way you have your house, plus you can team up with friends to be co-owners of theres. This will limit the number of houses to the number of people, but it will seem like you have a few. Ie you buy a house on the beach, and friend buys on in the mountains, and another in bfe. You all put each other on as co-owners, and walla, you have three houses. Now co-owners can also have there OWN chest in a house they co-own.

Anyways, I thought up a great idea on how my idea of house/family can work in with the previous thread on the subject. I'll post it when I get it done.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: St. John's Newfoundland, Canada
Posts: 1811

I still say that the coin system be graded into the more traditional versions... Ya'know... gold coins didn't exist in large quantities then... You could make up your own currency... of copper or iron

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 399

Tangwei : co ownership for multiple houses would probably be the best solution. however who technically "owns" each house? the deployer? the highest lvl? or the guy with the most money?

Yknow, who is supposed to own the deed?

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 279

The actuall deployer. He would be the only one to be able to enable/deable co-owners. Plus allow the newbie foster thing. Or sell the house/move ect...

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Personally, I think an upkeep cost on a house isn;t that bad of an idea.. because that way you CAN have 3-4 or even 10 houses.. but with 10 houses, it gets DAMNED expensive to keep em all around..

meh.. whatever

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 399

crap.. now theres two good ideas - why not merge them into one? Co-ownered houses split the upkeep costs, allowing for more houses you own (you own co-ownered houses i.e. you have the keys to all the chests but your buddies personal chest)

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 279

This is kinda running on another idea I have, negitive balance. Basicly it's kinda like a bank account. The upkeep costs would come directly from your account in the bank every realworld week. If you go negitive, you first must get positive to buy armor, weapons and such. After four weeks of going negitive, the house would be either auctioned off, or just disipear. Anything you had in your chests would be put into your storage at your bank.

I have a lot of other ideas, but I'm not sure if you all want to hear them. I figured out a way to have a working economy. Based on supply and demand. If you guys want I can post the whole thing (It's pretty damn long)

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4229

OK, I suggest that each house be given a set amount of damage it can take, Hit Points, if you will. These will be increased by remodeling, adding on features, etc....

However, they will naturally slowly decrease over time. The key here is slowly...It would take roughly a month or so of RL time for a house to deteriorate into the ground.

People can buy moderately expensive repair kits, and use them on houses owned by them or anyone who has them on group list.

Perfect...if they show up, build a house, and leave, the house will leave in time... If a rich player gives a newbie a wad of cash, and the newbie blows it on a castle, he won't be able to maintain it, and it will crumble.

Yes, post everything about the economy!

Economy is the major reason I like the concept of food... It's something that would be in continual demand. Also, have torches instead of orb of lum...and have people be able to craft them. Same goes for smithing etc...

PS: Yes, strider, I agree with the copper silver gold thing.... It somehow seems more realistic

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Proud to be in America!
Posts: 580

Having houses decay and such would be a good Idea to help prevent housing overcrowding. But there is a big problem with that. What about people who cannot constantly be on to update their house or make the payments on it? People cannot constantly come on, there may be social engagments, jobs, grounding, vacation, business trips, so on and so forth. People will not be able to make it on often, some may not be able to make it on once a month!

I agree there should be some sort of house decay, but there needs to be a way so an admin or somethin, can "freeze" a house, if a player requests. The player could mention that he or she cannot make it on the server to make payments, so the admin can #freezehouse to prevent it from decaying because the person has forewarned the absense. The problem with this is that server owners could not go without admins. They would have to pay constant attention to their server, and have a valid way for people to contact them about needing thier houses frozen.

Just another two pence worth from your nieghborhood freindly Postal Service!

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 415

dont know if this has been mentioned cause I havn't read all the replies, sorry.

A way to prevent many people from joining one house is to give rewards to the creator of the house that the other members don't recieve. Everyone will want to start their own house, but will struggle to get members. Thats why there should be a hefty requirement (remort level 1 or something) to create one (you can join after level 10 or something). A houses power is calculated by how many members it has.

Not only does this encourage people to build their own houses, it creates some tension between players ("join my house or die" kinda thing)

I really havnt read any of these posts so i might be talking about something wayy different, but who cares.

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Houses aren't 'clans' they're just... houses.
wood places you sleep inside

so yeah, you're a little off, but just the same, with this 'foster child' idea of approach, that may kinda come in to play

Question: Whats the limit on co-owners?
Whats the limit on 'fostered' newbies?

Plus, instead of being paid for having a fostered newbie, simply make upkeep much cheaper when you have a newbie in-house pretend like its subsidized by the kind or some crap

Also, fostered newbies wont be responsible for ANY of the upkeep will they? (unless the house owner makes that part of the deal, but I mean in the code itself)

assuming JI implements fostering at all, which I think is a great idea.

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 279

It would be one newbie per person. Though you must be in the city limits to house one. I have a better explination in my newer post. As far as the newbies having to worry about the upkeep, I don't think they should. Basicly the only reason to do the foster thing would be to 1. to foster a better relationship between newbies and oldbies, and 2. to get newbies hooked on the game as fast as possible

I think co-owners should be unlimited. That way you could do player orginized guilds and such.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 3009

Its Monopoly lol

4 Houses then 1 Hotel :P

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4229

quote:

---

Originally posted by Postal_Service
Having houses decay and such would be a good Idea to help prevent housing overcrowding. But there is a big problem with that. What about people who cannot constantly be on to update their house or make the payments on it? People cannot constantly come on, there may be social engagments, jobs, grounding, vacation, business trips, so on and so forth. People will not be able to make it on often, some may not be able to make it on once a month!

---

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: St. John's Newfoundland, Canada
Posts: 1811

If the concept of food is implemented then I'm gonna be a grocer and a smith. I really like being in demand

Copper silvers and golds are the only way we can possibly have a realistic system. BUT, it will be like change is today!! It's just gives an overall count of money in coppers, which is the new form of gold coin, because golds weren't in abundance except with nobles and kings (yes, I know about the big treasure hoards, but peasants don't have them, ayia?) When you pay for something the guy says something like, that will be 4 coppers, which is four dollars. Or, if you're buying something very expensive, like, say, a shard of keldrinite, which costs about 700 coppers (not realistic of course, just examples), the guy would say: "That's seven golds." But, if you throw down a pack with 700 copper in it, it says that when you pick it up: "700 copper." and if you have goood haggling and the amount is uneven, the guy could say: "That's 6 golds and 4 silvers please." for something that costs 680.

Copper = 1 dollar (replaces gold coin)
Silver = 20 copper
Gold = 5 silver, 100 copper

This way, they talk more realistic, instead of saying that's 1,000,000 gold coins please.

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Proud to be in America!
Posts: 580

I agree with strider. Money should be in a more realistic form. The copper silver gold thing would work out nicely, and also make it so that you could hold a large amount of money and still be able to move.

Trading and such could be simplified and large amounts of currency wouldn't have to be thrown around.

Also a person should be able to exchange currency for higher or lower amounts at a bank, because a merchant might not have appropriate change. (Ever played fallout? Merchants there rarely had enough change on hand)

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Berlin, WI
Posts: 2447

but can you please keep it metric? 1silver = 10 copper

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Lothlorien
Posts: 724

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zelgadis
but can you please keep it metric? 1silver = 10 copper

---

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Proud to be in America!
Posts: 580

But at that rate money would still have to be in an abundance if we are gonna make it metric, then it needs to be somethin like the everquest system.
silver=10 coppers
gold= 10 silver= 100 copper
platinum*=10 gold=100 silver= 1000 copper

*Name could be changed to make it sound more "Mideval"

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4229

10 copper = 1 bronze
10 bronze = 1 silver
10 silver = 1 gold
10 gold = 1 platinum
10 platinum = 1 keldrincoin.

Sound good?

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 924

guys

dont even use everquest for an example

people have been playing everquest for over 2 years now, they are looking for something new

so you gotta think of dif new stuff, lets stop the ripping

there are atleast 20 online rpgs in dev, some coming out soon, and they are all doing something new, and all the ultima online, diablo 2, asherons call, and everquest peeps are gonna go to them, cause they are doing something dif

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4229

Um, there are only so many precious metals....

Hence my idea of the Keldrincoin. (presumably made of keldrinite)

Anyone else like it?

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 2480

totally off the wall comment:


well, if you want to keep it simple or different: why doesn't everybody wear a small (flat, rectangular) stone around their neck, or keep one on them...when you purchase stuff, the merchant chisels a notch in it. (A plain stone is worth, say, 500 coins, and its small enough you could carry several.)

When it's all notched out...go to bank and cash in for a new one.

The original credit card. Don't leave home without it. Talk to your banker about signing up for your KeldrinCard today.

It would be easier to carry a Payment Parchment with the merchants seal on it...but hey, not everybody can read!

:p
--------------
actually bartering would be more realistic. But coding for that would not be fun.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4229

LOL, goldy....someone seriously proposed a credit card style system...

Not sure I would want all that, though.

I can see it already...tromping home form a rough day in the mines to my little hovel, and what awaits me? 18 application for pre-approved Keldrin cards, all with different interest rates and payment plans. Hmm, will we also code in pyramid schemes and chain letters? Please!

bartering would work...wait a minute... we already do a lot of player bartering...perhaps. Elminate all AI merchants. Have only a few in-game quests. All merchants would have to be players. No cash system....would enforce bartering.

I think I need to go sit down now. :-)

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Berlin, WI
Posts: 2447

i wish people would quiot saying "dont rip from EQ" ***** its not like they patented the word Dagger and Gold, everyone who has played it sounds like they own a Silver Copper Gold system of money, ive never played EQ and i really dont care if we both use the same ideas, great minds think alike they say, i say its that there isnt any more effective methods to have coins!

anyway: how about instead of minted gold/silver et cetera coins you can have merchants charge by the pound. this fullplate will cost you 550 Kg(weight units) of gold! and you can mine like 0.5kg chunks at a time or whatever..... if you desparately need a different system this one should work. you could even have an appraisal bot to exchange your metals for a bank note (deposit) or a different type of metal

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Proud to be in America!
Posts: 580

Yeah but gold isn't that abundant. It isn't like I am gonna go runnin around findin gold lying on the ground.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Berlin, WI
Posts: 2447

well cash of any sort isnt that availiable, yet it is necissary for high levelrs.

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